Forum:AaU Revival?

Forums: Index > Wiki Operations > Discussion Area > AaU Revival?

I wish to bring back the Adopt a User project. Moonflight has presented me with the problems:

There are too many apprentices, and not enough mentors.
New users often up and leave, (without any notice) which wastes time, help, and space.
There are already help pages, and if people don't read them, it's only because they're too lazy.

My response?

One option is changing the mentor to apprentice ratio. I haven't exactly thought this one through fully, but I believe that we can come up with some solution to this problem.
We could elicit a commitment from users; not something that binds them to the wiki, but something that says, "If you're going to up and leave, inform us before you do so." It's not the best solution, but that's why I created this forum.
Help pages are impersonal. Yes, they tell you everything you could ever want to know about wiki editing, but you also don't get that mentor-apprentice bond. Apprentices often feel in awe of their mentors and their seemingly boundless amounts of knowledge. Mentors also help new users learn important social skills that I don't think they could learn from simple help pages.

Okay, so my responses aren't fully developed, but again, that's why I created this forum! I'm asking everybody here, "How we can reopen AaU?" Any suggestions or comments on improvement are greatly appreciated. llwild heart™l 09:13, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

Well, maybe we could have some new mentors. Like Mistystar139, or you Wildheart. We could pick some users that completely know the wiki's rules and have them as mentors. --❋Rai ney 10:41, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

The problem is that with the amount of new users to the wiki (you know, including all the people who join all the projects, ask for a charart or a siggie, and then leave) there aren't enough mentors to deal with them all, unless we drastically increase the amount of apprentices that mentors are given. However, this wastes a lot of time and effort that help pages can provide, and that's the basis of Moonflight's argument. I know, I know, I'm fighting against myself, but I'm just trying to clarify her argument. Anyway, thanks, Rainy, for being the first person to comment! =3 llwild heart™l 10:59, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

Your welcome! What you say is true though....ugh, this is really hard. Does anyone else have an idea? --❋Rai ney 11:01, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

I think we should lower the requirements for mentors--Wild fire 11:48, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

Wildfire's right. I think that the requirements should be lowered. I'd love to help out, but I know I don't have the proper percentage amount. It's a little too high, honestly. They should look not only at edit amounts, but, also the contributions. Anyone can get that percentage, if they really want it - by editing the main articles and such. I support the revival of this project. --Cloud skye^{♫ Delete ♫} 12:51, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

It's going to be hard to do change the requirements. We simply cannot let anyone be a mentor. It is about contributions, already. We need to make sure the mentors are trustworthy, and competent in Wiki-Code.

As for developing social skills through this, well, if they don't have said social skills, do you really think they should be on this site? If they cant work with other people, they might as well just leave. I mean, honestly. Other wikis have functioned fine without Adopt-A-User; some of them are even better off. I mean, we might as well delete the help pages since you all think they're so useless. The wiki has functioned fine without Adopt-A-User before. Most of the apprentices are just people who make a charart, make a siggie, and leave. Why should we re-open something that fixes absolutely nothing? I mean, I grew up on those help pages and tutorials. I think I turned out okay; I stuck around, and I think I would have been worse off without them, if say, I only relied on a mentor. I did have a mentor; Maplefern, but I only asked her for one thing; how to create redirects. I actually consulted the help pages more. If you actually gave them a look, you'll see how helpful they are.

These users are not children; at least, not the ones that actually improve the wiki. If they are mature enough, and want to learn, they should be able to adjust to actually finding help for themselves. There is little a help page doesn't have that a mentor does. Chararts are the only thing. Belive it or not, help pages are actually more helpful. Mentors don't know everything, and neither do help pages. But, if the help pages don't have the information, then ask someone. Why must we put extra effort in for users who are too lazy and undetermined to take the extra step to learn something. If they won't do that, they are not worth it. And I can guareentee that only about 10% of the users that become apprentices will stay around. Adopt-A-User is just an organized system for something that already exists. You say they need someone to look to. They're not children. I know role-models are important, but people develop role models who weren't even their mentors. I did.

Don't you see? Adopt-A-User is not needed. The only issue is the high-traffic amount of new users joining the wiki. Adopt-A-User won't solve that problem. If anything, it'll make things worse. If they're not making an effort now, what makes you think they'll make an effort if we re-open it? ☾Moon flight ☽ 13:59, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

I like your idea, I did have one of my own. I think it would be helpful to have several users make a page on their advice for new users, and when they join and get their help links on their talk page, those would be linked as well. Doing it in informal, helpful language might help them understand what we mean, and they could ask for help for what they don't understand. The page could contain a huge contipiliationn (spelling fail, sorry I don't have Firefox at school) of information for various parts of the Wiki that should cover topics they may not understand, as well as basic info on Project Charart (even if they don't plan on joining) and stuff like that. --Iveh Yo ! 16:31, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I have an idea. What if there were apprentice requirements too? For example, that you can't just leave when you get bored and that you have to go on on two or three specified days snd times that you and your mentor will be on. How about it? Leopardclaw ^{Eyes watching in the Dark…} 16:39, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

Ivystripe: Good thinking, but there's already the Welcome message, that provides links to help pages. I could add a few more links to it.

Leopardclaw: I was thinking that. I have a feeling that no matter what I say, people won't agree to leave Adopt-A-User closed. I think those would be a good idea. ☾Moon flight ☽ 17:08, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

@Moonflight i think we should bring this back new users need help the reason no one reads the help pages is because, no offence, they're way too long. I asked Bramble about everything and when I found out there was a mentor program I thought that would make it way easier but then I realised it was closed and had to keep asking Bramble. So if we reopened this project i think it would really help new users, if we could get them to follow an agreement saying that they would stay for at least one month or until they made a certian amount of edits that would be better. Wild fire 21:30, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know. It is kind of useless, with the help pages and everything, but sometimes its nice to just have someone who you can ask questions to. It is a good idea lower the mentor requirements, and give strict requirements to apprentices, and it seems like most users do want to have the project. ∗ Mistystar ∗ ^{Trust the Fire Within...} 22:26, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree with Mistystar. I've really missed AaU, and I would like it to come back. ❋Rai ney 13:02, May 17, 2011 (UTC)

Mistystar: You can already ask anyone. Why should they be restricted to one person? The only reason the help pages are so long is because that's what's necessary. The topic you're trying to learn cannot be fully explained and comprehended without the necessary explanations. You try explaining it in a couple of sentences and let me know how it goes.

Anyway, no one sees my point except a few users. They don't understand that it's not needed. They can ask anyone any questions they might have. They could easily ask someone to mentor them unnofficially. Why must we put extra work into it?

Of course, no one understands. ☾Moon flight ☽ 20:14, May 17, 2011 (UTC)

PSYCH! I'm just joshing you. I've carefully considered everything you guys said, and while I still believe we can do without the project, if we can answer the following questions, we can re-open the project.

What guidelines must be changed and created for apprentices and mentors?
How can we make sure apprentices and mentors will be able to stick around?

Go for it, guys. I admit, I do miss AaU. It just saddens me that only one apprentice of mine has stuck around. I want to train an apprentice that will be guarrenteed to stick around. Can you guys make guidelines that will really improve the project? Please? I know you guys can. Of course I'll help; I have to, but you guys remember more what it's like to be a new user than this elder here. So, dowit... :P ☾Moon flight ☽ 20:22, May 17, 2011 (UTC)

I never knew AaU, but I always wanted the best user (At least, I think.) as my mentor. But sadly, he is not that active. But I'm all for reopening. ❁ YatzSliversword ^{Ah, spring...}❁ 23:27, May 17, 2011 (UTC)

As much as I want this project to reopen, as I too felt bad for always nagging Eu & Kitsu when I was younger for help as I also didn't use all the help pages xD but managed will without them. It saddens me to say that all of my apprentices have recently left the wikia, but to their own amends for valuable reasons but they all had reached the stage of being fine without me. Honestly, I don't think an apprentice should be able to request who they want as their mentor. In the past, we had so many users that came just for PCA asking for Bramble and other high warriors that it got out of hand and went to the step of letting first come first serve, and the mentor picking the apprentice they wanted. As for seeing how long an apprentice might actually stick around, I think of the user is atleast active on the wiki for a month or two should meet the qualification. This doesn't mean them just browsing around and posting on project pages about their opinions, but also helping with the articles. Add on to those and help WITH the project.-- ♩ Shimmerpool ^{♪ Never B ♭ ♫ Sometimes B ♯ ♬ But Always B ♮} 00:54, May 18, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, Moonflight! <3 I was reading your comments, and going, "If our only active admin despairs of opening the project, how can this ever work?" I get that there are already resources around that can help new users, but if they don't use the resources, what help are they? Really, the only thing we can do is try to work around their laziness. I'm glad that you recognize that this is a disfunctional idea, but you are willing to work with us to help rework the disfunctionalities. Thank you for your patience.

Bweare of rants!

As for mentors sticking around: I think (or I hope) that by the time users are ready to become mentors, they'll have enough loyalty to stick around, or at least notify us before they leave. However, this is not always the case, so I think users should have to stick around for a certain amount of time before they are allowed to become mentors. I can't actually remember what the previous requirements for being a mentor were, but I know they had to have 50% of contributive edits in Main, Warriors Wiki, Template... um... I can't remember. Anyway, the rules were pretty darn good. I liked them. They meant you had to work hard to become a mentor. I don't think the contributive edits percentage should be lowered, but if somebody wants to look in the history of the AaU project page and try to find the previous requirements, that would be lovely. I don't have the time to do so currently.

As for apprentices sticking around: This is a slightly more difficult issue. New users are sort of unpredictable. Often they're here on a whim; they're keen to look around, make a siggie, perhaps a charart or two, and then they just leave. Of course, not all new users are like that. For example; Moonflight. She was (once) a new user, and look how she turned out. She's now a bureaucrat on this wiki! Everybody who you look up to on this wiki was once a new user. Anyway, I meant to say that we can't truly tell from first glance who will or will not stay on this wiki. Is there any way we can? You tell me. I agree 100% with Leopardclaw/Shimmerpool's idea. Candidates for apprentices should have to commit to a certain amount of time before being accepted as apprentices. Any ideas as to what that time should be?

As for the social skills argument: What I meant was the little nuances. Not necessarily social skills, but things that you only learn by either watching something closely for a long time until you're able to do it yourself, or by jumping into it with reckless abandon and a muttered "sorry". The latter way earns you a crash course on how to do everything, but not without dirty glances thrown your way. Of course, if AaU reopened, then there would be another option; you could ask your mentor. I know I learned the first way, but most new users these days have a little bit less restraint. No offence, y'all, but you jump before you look.

There. That's my argument. Kudos if you read it all, and thanks for your patience. llwild heart™l 03:42, May 18, 2011 (UTC)

I must say: the idea of the AAU is nice. The idea of helping new users in their first steps of editing, of teaching them how to use wiki code, of holding their hands as they become great contributors.

Unfortunately, it does not work. We tried it several times, faced the same problems each time, and I do not believe it will be better this time (rather, worse).

To remind people, the problems encountered during the activity of the AAU were:

There were too few mentors and too many apprentices. Most apprentices never got a mentor - which defied the basic idea behind the AAU. Right now, I feel that we have much fewer skilled users than one year ago (when AAU was open), so things would be even worse.
Most apprentices disappeared without notice after (or even before) first contact. So most mentors were stuck with inactive apprentices, while active ones could not get one, making an even greater mess.
Most apprentices who survived first contact only wanted to know "how to make a fancy sig" and "how to make a fancy userpage", after which they disappeared without notice, instead of being interested in actual work for the wiki.
Some people who wanted to be mentors but did not fit the requirements made lots of unnecessary edits to get their editcount up, or whined about the system and created tension.
It takes a lot of time and energy (especially for the admins) to run the system, time that can be used for contributive edits.

An alternative I proposed some time ago: use the Help Desk. The idea is same as the AAU: experienced members helping novices, but instead of a one-on-one setup, it is a "classroom" where all "mentors" and all "apprentices" take part in the learning process. And it has the great advantage that apprentices can get help more or less instantly to their questions from someone that is online right then, instead of waiting weeks to get a mentor, and days for a question to be answered.

Kind regards, Helix^talk 18:16, May 18, 2011 (UTC)

Finally. Someone who agrees. I wish I had the words Helix used, but I didn't.

I gave up my argument, okay? I admit it. I could tell how adamant everyone is for re-opening the Project. It doesn't work. I've said it. What is one person against a whole community of users? I knew I would lose, and if I said "no, not a chance", I would turn into a tyrant, which Helix warned me to avoid on my Adminship Nomination. I thought we could compromise. But now that Helix has brought up the points again, I wish to analyze them:

There is no way to control the ratio of mentors to apprentices. It's as simply impossible as that.

Sure, we can create requirements for users, but we can't tell what their true intentions are. We can never know for sure if a user is lying to get a mentor to create petty creations.

I know Zoe27 and Clarrissa koins are long gone, but I can already see some users that will complain about the system. We need the guidelines. We all voted on them. We need to make sure our mentors know their stuff and will stick around. Their editcounts can easily reflect if a mentor is mentor is fit or not.

I'm the only active admin. Sure we could have Rainlegs help me, but that's not nearly enough to suffice for the amount of users that will join.

No one here can provide a good argument that the Help Pages and Help Desk are of no help.

Sorry if I seem to change my opinion a lot. I know I shouldn't do that. This is just causing me unnecessary stress and I hate it. I just want it to stop, but what can I do? No one gets how unsolvable these issues are... ☾Moon flight ☽ 16:51, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

well just some ideas (probably no good)

we give apprentices a rule like... if there is any unexcused absence for more than (so many days)they will be removed from the project

and mentors kind of the same thing maybe tweaked a bit

to find mentors maybe there could be assigned people that look for possible mentors and ask them to be mentors.

maybe there could be some sort of wait list but they could be considered kits and can still ask questions before they get a mentor.

or maybe just for crazy new ideas no apprentices assigned to mentors maybe just mentors and apprentices the apprentices can ask any mentor a question and that mentor will answer then maybe the apprentice will ask another mentor a different question and so on.

those were kind of random but I am in favor of bringing this project back and hopefully becoming a mentor. I might add other ideas later *Canyonsong*^{*Warrior Of Fireclan*} 22:30, May 23, 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't here when the project was active, but it does sound like a good idea. However, as Moonflight pointed out, there are a lot of loop holes and problems to the project. If we do lower requirements on mentors and raise requirements on apprentices, it might work but we can never know until we tr, right? Perhaps rather than totally put it in motion, we could have, say, a test run. Edit all te requirements to what we agreed on here, and see how it works out. Then maybe one, two months we would see how it's going. Then after a few months, we could decide then whether to keep it open, and that way we would actually be experiencing how well or how impossible the project is. What about that proposition? At el da 00:01, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

Canysong: That won't solve anything. Atelda; we haven't agreed yet. We probably would do that, but not until everyone is satisfied with them. ☾Moon flight ☽ 23:07, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

Okay. I've some possible guidelines for the project.

Moonflight is the only admin: Okay, why do we need an admin to run AaU? Why don't we just pick a responsible user who is willing to settle debates etc and run AaU with the normal Project hierarchy?

Mentor to apprentice ratio: Lower the requirements slightly. Not a lot, 'cause they're pretty good right now, but something like this, maybe? To be a mentor, one must;

Have at least 400 of their total edits and at least 50% of their added up edit percentages be in contributive namespaces.
Have been a member of the site for 3 months.
And then all the other rules that used to be in place would be the same.

To be an apprentice, once must;

Pledge to stay five weeks, and be a contributing editor during that time. That should sort out the flighty users from the ones who want to stay for a while. If that time is too lenient, post another time with an explanation, please.

If we lower the requirements for the mentors slightly and up the requirements for the apprentices, that's likely to increase the number of mentors and hopefully decrease the number of (flighty) apprentices. Perhaps that will balance it out a bit. If it doesn't, why don't we let the mentors have 3 apprentices?

I hope this helps, and maybe we could have a test run? Any more ideas would be greatly appreciated, but all in agreement say aye? =D

llwild heart™l 00:23, May 26, 2011 (UTC)

Aye. xD So, we would have a leader, deputy, etc.? Interesting...:P ∗ Mistystar ∗ ^{Trust the Fire Within...} 00:27, May 26, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah that's what I thought. I mean, why not? If we have a responsible user who's willing to deal with disgruntled users and devote some time to the project, they could be leader. At first, I thought Moonflight, but she seems to be against the whole idea, so perhaps not. I'd do it myself, but I don't think I'm considered an experienced enough user XD We could have the leader and deputy and sr warriors accept/deny mentor requests, change the "warriors" on the list to mentors, and have the apprentices as usual. Of course, we'd still have the table with all the mentors/apprentices on it. llwild heart™l 00:37, May 26, 2011 (UTC)

I think you'd make a good leader, and you seem to be the one whose most interested in the project xD ∗ Mistystar ∗ ^{Trust the Fire Within...} 00:38, May 26, 2011 (UTC)

how about sr warriors- 3 apprentices and warriors- 2 apprentices?*Canyonsong*^{*Warrior Of Fireclan*} 00:16, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

Ah! Genius. That makes sense =P We should definitely do that if this idea passes. Haha thanks, Mistystar. =P llwild heart™l 04:57, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

I agree that wildheart should be leader*Canyonsong*^{*Warrior Of Fireclan*} 20:00, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

Here's something I just thought of. Instead of reviving the project altogether...why not just have a select group of experienced - and active - WW members (Like Wildheart, Moonflight, Mistystar, ect.) that can serve as helpers for the newer members. You can place them on a certain page, and say that "if you're confused about a certain thing, you can go and ask this member". That way for the newer members that only want to know a little bit can ask said person, instead of having to assign apprentices to mentors? I never had a mentor, and look where I am now - I'm second in command of PB. But, I asked for help when I needed it. There may be members that are already familiar with Wikian ways, but not 100% sure of our ways. Sk ye ^Meow 22:04, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

I like that idea, but I still think we should reopen AaU. Perhaps we could try a test-run of reopening the project; how about a two-month attempt? If it fails miserably, I'll give up, and I think Cloudskye's idea would work as a wonderful replacement. Just give this a try? llwild heart™l 23:37, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

I like the idea of a trial run. Leopardclaw ^{Eyes watching in the Dark…} 08:32, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

So do I =) Does anyone else agree? ∗ Mistystar ∗ ^{Trust the Fire Within...} 23:34, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

What is going to happen to this now Wildheart is leaving? Should we still try a trial run?

Leo pard claw^{I’m a}^{The Steps of a Warrior| warrior ]]}^{The Steps of a Warrior|now!]]}

18:26, June 2, 2011 (UTC)

I think it would be a good idea to try a trial run, even though Wildheart's not going to be here anymore. I'm sure we could find a few good users willing to help out. I know I'll help out - Mistystar will probably help as well. I guess we'll have to see what Moonflight says. Sk ye ^Meow 19:37, June 2, 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry about ditching you guys in the middle of an important debate like this =( But I do think you should continue without me. I'm sure someone will head the debate in my absence. Right? Again, sorry =( llwild heart™l 23:48, June 3, 2011 (UTC)

We forgive you. :) I'll try to help, though I'm not that good at arguments. I think we should just have a trial run. ∗ Mistystar ∗ ^{Trust the Fire Within...} 23:53, June 3, 2011 (UTC)

I agree, if Moonflight agrees, then do you think that we could possibly put it to a vote like in the projects? At el da 01:28, June 4, 2011 (UTC)

I agree we should have a trial run with this and I'll be more than willing to help participate in it again too as well. After sifting through different pages at the wee hours of the night, I've notice quiet a good amount of new users want a mentor...even had one come ask me their self. So I say we should atleast push to give this a try. What this project needs is someone to always check in to make sure the warriors and apprentices are still active.-- ♩ Shimmerpool ^{♪ Never B ♭ ♫ Sometimes B ♯ ♬ But Always B ♮} 02:39, June 4, 2011 (UTC)

Although I may not have the qualifications to become a mentor I will still help with the project in any way I can. Leo pard claw^{I’m a}^{The Steps of a Warrior| warrior ]]}^{The Steps of a Warrior|now!]]} 07:01, June 4, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, since many people agree that we should have a trial run, should we have a vote? ∗ Mistystar ∗ ^{Trust the Fire Within...} 21:54, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

A vote sounds like an excellent idea. Even though Wildheart's not going to be around, that doesn't mean we should just drop her idea. A trial run should be good enough to decide whether or not to bring the project back for good, or even do what I suggested on May 27th. Sk ye ^Meow 15:22, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

I prefer Trial run, but lets wait for more opinions. ∗ Mistystar ∗ ^{Trust the Fire Within...} 16:42, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

I just saw this discussion. I (with Insaneular) had requested Bramble to open AaU again, and well, you people know the results. I joined the wiki in May 2009 when AaU was long closed, and I managed quite well. I like Cloudskye's idea, you have a problem, you can go and ask a senior user. Why have a particular user assigned as your mentor, when you can browse help pages or just ask them for help unofficially. Lightning ^talk 05:40, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

I don't really know, but some users prefer having "mentors", just because it makes them feel closer to the warrior series, and sometimes, users just like to be able to say, "I was mentored by ...", or "I mentored ...". ∗ Mistystar ∗ ^{Trust the Fire Within...} 22:15, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

So shall we have a vote on the trial run? Atelda _{_{insert vague subtext here}} 03:00, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

Yes. Let's just wait for more opinions first. ☾Moon flight ☽ 03:19, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

Wow, I can't believe I've never commented on this before, but here I am! Anyway, I think we shouldn't open AaU again because I never had a mentor, but I did ask for help from other users. I would participate if it did reopen, but it seems like a waste of time to me. If users really want to excel on this wiki, they should have the initiative to go after it themselves. They should look to the Help Pages which are already introduced to them the moment they make their account. I know, not so many reasons, but I don't like to ramble so much in writing. ☀S q u i r r e l F l a m e 2 9☀ ^{Defying the Darkness} 00:08, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Beware: Blunt expression alert.

Exactly. Most of the successful users we have either didn't have a mentor, or did not use their mentor. On the other hand, most users who did have a mentor aren't here today. Two of my three apprentices are gone. It's just a huge waste of time. Nothing is stopping users from putting on their page "I was mentored by...". They can always ask someone to mentor them. Why put on a big show when it can happen without it? This way, a user is guarenteed to get the mentor they want. I don't understand what is so necessary about it? Users can have more control over their education. Plus, if a user really is incappable of finding help without someone to hold their hand, they probably shouldn't be on the Wiki.

I know I sound like a dictator. But, I'm trying to show how unneccesary this all is. Some of the most successful users on this Wiki managed fine without mentors. There are so many help pages, and yeah, their impersonal, but that's life. No ones always going to be there to hold your hand. If you need help, you ask anyone. Why must someone be restricted to one person? Mentors don't know everything. When you have a question, consult a help page. If you can't find what you're looking for, then ask anyone. If we open the project, the help pages will all go to waste. The Community Portal, and the Help Desk will become dead if the project re-opens. There shouldn't be an issue. And, you all say they're already dead, but they won't be if you advertise them. There hasn't been an issue since this was brought up. ☾Moon flight ☽ 00:45, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Yes. I'm sorry to all the people who disagree and think this new project would be cool, but there seems no point of it to me. If every new user had a mentor, then all they would do is ask their mentor for everything. Like Moonflight said, you can't have someone holding your hand every step of the way. They need to be capable of setting free from the mentor and finally doing everything themselves without reliance. And even if they do need help, they can ask different users! I don't see why we need one user to take on this whole responsibility and waste time when they could be doing something else. The apprentice wouldn't ever truly leave their mentor because they would get used to asking them for everything. And it's best for the apprentice anyway to have a wide variety of sources from where they can get help. If they learn everything from that one user, then they'll be limiting themselves to the knowledge of that user. Whereas if they had experience from what many people did, they would learn better. It's all too easy for an apprentice to ask for some coding from the mentor and the mentor giving it to them. Then all they have to do is paste it onto their userpage and they have it. Sure, I asked other users for coding, but after that, I experimented with how to change it and how to move it in different directions. Most new users would enroll for the project, get a mentor, and then get all their coding from that mentor, happy with what they have, and never truly learning what the coding means. I know this isn't a very good piece of writing and that there are probably a lot of mistakes, but I hope you can understand the point of what I meant to say. Once again, I'm sorry to the rest of you, but my opinion's just different.☀S q u i r r e l F l a m e 2 9☀ ^{Defying the Darkness} 02:58, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

I understand; but still, many users do like being mentored. Have any of you noticed how after AAU closed, many users still continued asking for mentors? I know because I have been asked 3 times, and each time, I have to tell them that I can't officially mentor them since AAU is closed. Besides, even if one user has one mentor, they can still ask others for help. ∗ Mistystar ∗ ^{Trust the Fire Within...} 15:24, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Why can't you mentor them? Nothing is stopping you... You can mentor people without the project, you know. ☾Moon flight ☽ 15:50, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

You can mentor them without the project, but then they can't officially be mentored and graduated. Isn't it better to be organized? ∗ Mistystar ∗ ^{Trust the Fire Within...} 16:03, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

I don't see why we have to be organized about such a small deal. Graduating from an apprentice into a warrior on this wiki isn't a very big thing, and most users on this wiki haven't been officially graduated. ☀S q u i r r e l F l a m e 2 9☀ ^{Defying the Darkness} 18:07, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Well, to some newer users, you never know, it could be the biggest thing on the wiki. I remember when I first joined, my first goal on this wiki was to become a mentor of AAU. Of course, it closed. How do you know there aren't more users who want that? ∗ Mistystar ∗ ^{Trust the Fire Within...} 15:56, July 10, 2011 (UTC)

And if there is no AAU, then users like me wouldn't even care, and they would just strive to be the best user they could be. ☀S q u i r r e l F l a m e 2 9☀ ^{Defying the Darkness} 18:53, July 11, 2011 (UTC)

Personal gain such as being a mentor on here should never be a number one goal. Users' number one priority should be to improve the Wiki. The point of the Wiki is to improve this encyclopedia, all personal gain aside, and re-opening this would take away from that point. ☾Moon flight ☽ 19:04, July 11, 2011 (UTC)

Well, becoming a mentor, in a way, is trying to improve the wiki, because then you can teach others how to also help the wiki. First goal isn't the same as number one goal. First goal is the first thing you want when you don't know what else to want, number one goal is top priority. Of course, I seriously am tired of having to find this forum every day to try to convince others things that I personally don't care too much about, so, yeah. I'm not going to argue, and if you want, you may delete the project from this wiki. And, no, not because you convinced me to, but I'm just way too lazy to argue for this project. *victory dance*. You may victory dance too, if you want. xD ∗ Mistystar ∗ ^{Trust the Fire Within...} 17:12, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

So are we officially going to close up this discussion and the project now? ☀S q u i r r e l F l a m e 2 9☀ ^{Defying the Darkness} 20:41, July 14, 2011 (UTC)

I still say there should be a special list of members that new users can contact. The staff aren't always around (no offense, Moonflight and Misty xD) to answer every single little question that a new person can ask. ℓαωℓιєт ^Light 21:44, July 14, 2011 (UTC)

That, I agree with. We can put them in the info box on the home page and the welcome page. ☾Moon flight ☽

23:44, July 18, 2011 (UTC)

But which users? I know Misty would have to be one of them. Along with you... I'd say...maybe have five or six users, but, have some of them advanced in one particular subject (like one with formatting, policies, ect.) —Jayce() 23:47, July 18, 2011 (UTC)