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Unborn kits[]

There was a brief discussion in the Discord server about listing unborn kits on character pages, which can be separated into three categories:

  • Unborn litters who have not been born yet as of the current timeline, such as Fernstripe's and Havenpelt's upcoming litters.
  • Unborn litters who died during the queen's pregnancy, such as Songbird. There's been on exception (I think) where unborn kits have gone to StarClan: Tiger Tail and Pale Sky.
  • Unborn litters who we have no idea what happened to them, such as Star Flower's second litter with Skystar that we never saw the conclusion for. Were they born? Did they die? Who knows.

Personally I'm against listing these on character pages, with the exception of the third option. We know Star Flower was pregnant in Shadowstar's Life but we don't know what happened to them. It would be an assumption to list them with any residency not confirmed in canon material. However, neglecting to specifically mention that Star Flower was pregnant for a second time with Skystar's litter is something that I feel is easily missed on her page.

It doesn't seem logical to list upcoming litters, such as Fernstripe's, when there's a good chance they will be born soon. Unborn litters who unfortunately died doesn't sound promising either since they didn't exist (with the exception of Tiger Tail and Pale Sky but they were shown in StarClan). But I wouldn't mind listing unborn litters that we don't know the fates of, specifically as Unborn litter of kits. Thoughts? Vec I am Iron Man! 👾 23:29, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

I don't think we should be listing them at all. We technically don't know if she even had the kits, so we shouldn't be listing them as alive or deceased. We could, however, relegate it to trivia or do a better job of mentioning it in the article itself. I'm of the mind that unless they were seen (Bright Stream's kits and Storm and Skystar's kits, for example) they really shouldn't be listed at all. Jayce(23:44, 3/14/2024)

I think that the third option and maybe the second one could be listed. For kits who died during the queen’s pregnancy or had an unknown fate, I think it would still be good to have some form of note about them outside the history section so that it’s more easily seen; trivia section would work, perhaps also somewhere in the infobox. - Arenzel 23:48, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Since I brought it up I may as well comment on it I suppose: I do agree with the notion of not treating them like proper characters until they are born or we get an exception like with Tiger Tail and Pale Sky. Otherwise it only complicates what counts as a book mention/appearance for them. However, I do also believe that not mentioning them at all (outside of the book appearances section of the mother where we get to know about them) is detrimental. Bright Stream's case proves that even unborn kits can become "proper" characters and not listing that a cat expects/expected kits makes the family section incomplete imo. My main gripe is that unborn litters currently aren't highlighted anywhere on the pages of the adjacent family members, so I'd already be happy if they were to at the very least be mentioned in the trivia section. Although I will say that this would be a little inconsistent since unnamed born kits and (un)named deadborn kits are always mentioned in the character box, too. But whether it's in the box or just in the trivia section, if I imagine myself in place of someone who relies on the wiki for information regarding kinship, I wouldn't think of looking into specific book appearance summaries to find out how many say litters/kits the cat had. I'd just look at the family section Dewdropᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ 01:36, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

The Graypaws[]

Mild Wind spoilers but this was a problem we knew would be coming.

Graykit, Spotfur's son, earns his apprentice name soon. Our plot chart for listing characters with the same names goes as this:

  • First by affiliation (SkC, Lo, KP, Sister, etc) - but we already have a Graypaw in ThunderClan (Graystripe) and a Graypaw in RiverClan (Graypool).
  • Second, we go by arc (AVoS, TBC, TNP, etc) if there is more than one character in the same Clan with a given name, such as Rowankit (ASC), Birchpaw (ASC), Stemkit (ASC), etc. However, we already have a Graypaw in A Starless Clan - Frostpaw's brother, Graypaw (ASC).

So the question becomes...what do we call Graykit (TC)? The German Wiki offered a suggestion to go by parent's name, so "Graypaw (Jayclaw's son)" and "Graypaw (Stemleaf's son)" or with their mothers. We could also list it by book they earned their name, such as "Graypaw (River)" or Graypaw (Wind)".

Thoughts on this conundrum? I don't believe this is an issue we've ever had before so any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Vec I am Iron Man! 👾 23:29, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

I think we should use book names, but that's just my opinion. For example, we have multiple instances of Whitepaw. I'd say just follow the lead used there and use what we do for those. Jayce(23:41, 3/14/2024)

I also think we should use book names, since using the parent's name also seems a bit too long. - Arenzel 23:48, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

I think we should do something like the parents name, because would the (River) or (Wind) change when they got their warrior names? ~WILLOWTHROAT~ 23:55, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

It would be when they got their current names, so, that being Graypaw. One is River, the other is Wind. Jayce(23:58, 3/14/2024)
then yeah, the book apprentice name sounds okay. ~WILLOWTHROAT~ 00:19, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

wait, looking at it now, RiverClan Graypaw was introduced in Lost Stars, which Spotify didn’t even know she was expecting. Why don’t we just name his page something like Graypaw (LS) like we’ve done in the past? ~WILLOWTHROAT~ 18:42, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

He wasn't Graypaw until A Starless Clan. We go by the first book they have that name. Vec I am Iron Man! 👾 18:44, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Maybe we could call the page "Greypaw (TC/ASC)" so there is no confusion. - Scorchy

I like the idea of using names of the book (River or Wind). It's shorter than parents' names, and it's been done before. ☀☽Catmusic12☾☀♫★ 01:50, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea to use book names. So, Graypaw (River) and Graypaw (Wind). Étoile de la Rivière (talk) 05:55, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

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